CIB's being awarded to com engs
#31

That sounds about right. I like that quote! :pdt34: Man, if you sit down and read the S-1 through S-4 reports, you will gain even more respect for these guys. I swear half the time I don't know if they even slept. The conditions, especially at Anzio were just hell. Day in and day out. But they still accomplished ALL these amazing feats under FIRE.

 

The casualties too. Sometimes it's hard for me to read, and I actually get teary eyed when I read that someone was injured on one page, and then three pages later I find out that they died. I guess these men are like family to me now and I feel so very close to them. A lot of them have faces now too and that makes it even harder.

 

Anyway...

M/M ! IF YOU HEAR OR KNOW ANY C/E THAT WAS AT ANZIO, ASK HIM HOW DID THEY LAY THAT SMOKE SCREEN IN FRONT OF US, HEARWHAT I SAID !! IN FRONT OF US. THEY RIGGED UP A JEEP WITH SOMETHING IN THE BACK AND THEN THEY PUT THE PEDDLE TO THE MEDDLE AND LAID DOWN A SMOKE SCREEN. SO FORA LITTLE WHILE WE COULD GET UPAND WALK AROUND. WHERE I WAS AT THERE WAS A LITTLE CREEK..SO WE TOOK "SUPPOSEDLY A BATH" i TALK ABOUT THE FUNNY THINGS ONLY. THOSE COMBAT ENGINEERS SURE KNEW THEIR JOBS. I JUST NOW THOUGHT, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM THAT WAS AT ANZIO ? Just wondered. Rocky

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#32

Captain Fallon was finally able to log on and see the doc. Here is what he wrote this evening.

 

...It refers to a WAr Department Circular 186 dated 11 May 1944. This is what I am going to try to find now. It probably supercedes the AR for the CIB which is very restrictive.You are a gem!

 

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
Reply
#33

Anyway...

M/M ! IF YOU HEAR OR KNOW ANY C/E THAT WAS AT ANZIO, ASK HIM HOW DID THEY LAY THAT SMOKE SCREEN IN FRONT OF US, HEARWHAT I SAID !! IN FRONT OF US. THEY RIGGED UP A JEEP WITH SOMETHING IN THE BACK AND THEN THEY PUT THE PEDDLE TO THE MEDDLE AND LAID DOWN A SMOKE SCREEN. SO FORA LITTLE WHILE WE COULD GET UPAND WALK AROUND. WHERE I WAS AT THERE WAS A LITTLE CREEK..SO WE TOOK "SUPPOSEDLY A BATH" i TALK ABOUT THE FUNNY THINGS ONLY. THOSE COMBAT ENGINEERS SURE KNEW THEIR JOBS. I JUST NOW THOUGHT, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM THAT WAS AT ANZIO ? Just wondered. Rocky

 

Rocky,

 

I had a message on my answering machine from an old Seahorse that was at Anzio. Aint it funny how these coinsidences happen?

I'll tell him there is an old Red Bull that wants to know about the Smoke screens

Chris

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#34

CHRIS; ASK HIM IF HE KNOWS ABOUTTHE ANZIO BEACHHEAD VETERANS HAVING A REUNION FIRST WEEK IN MAY AT BRANSON MO. WE DON'T NEED A SMOKE SCREEN THERE, Rocky

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#35

Rocky,

Mr. Medina said there was so much confusion and stuff going on at Anzio, that he would have to think on it awhile. I know that part of the 36th's job was setting up some sort of a tank for drinking water. There was a picture of the tank somewhere on the web.

I'll tel him about the Anzio reunion. Branson sounds like a great place to have it and I'm sure that it will draw some good numbers.

 

Just to fill you in Rocky, I hooked up with my Dad's best buddy, in a round about way from this website. Joe Medina and my Dad hooked up with the 36 in North Africa and stayed together through Italy France and Germany. That was one more feather for Marion's cap :pdt34:

Chris

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#36

I can tell you that being a modern day Combat Engineer, there are several other MOS's (job specialties) screaming that they should be awarded the CIB because they may have participated in some engagements. If any other MOS should be awarded the CIB it should be Combat Engineers. It is written in their job description that their secondary mission is to perform as Infantry. This is why they are organized similar to Infantry, ie: Squad, Platoon, Company and so forth. The major difference is that we don't have organic fire support, ie: Mortars, Artilley etc. As a Combat Engineer in the 82nd Airborne DIvision, my Squad and I Jumped in to do a mission with our Infantry counterparts did everything they did until an Engineer type mission came about. Breach an obstacle, recon a bridge, employ a hasty minefield etc. We were often used in the weapons Platoon as we carried a 90mm Recoiless Rifle. I can tell you from personal experience that I performed equal amounts of Infantry and Engineer missions.

 

Here is an excerpt taken from the 37th EN BN History:

 

Numerous tales of valor stand out but none more than privates Vinton Dove and Willie Shoemaker, who without concern for their own personal safety, exposed themselves and their bulldozer to enemy fire in order to clear a tank ditch obstacle and cut a lane off of the beach. This lane was the primary exit from the beach on D-Day. Privates Dove and Shoemaker each earned the Distinguished Service Cross for their valor and efforts. The battalion did more than contribute with engineering skills. Three platoons were dedicated as infantry and significantly contributed to the reduction of the pillboxes and machine gun positions on the hill surrounding the beach. 1LT Robert P. Ross, one of the platoon leaders, took charge of an Infantry Company whose commander had been killed. Under his leadership, the infantry company and engineer platoon killed 40 German troops and forced the surrender of two machine gun positions. For his leadership and decisive actions, 1LT Ross was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross. These are only two examples of valorous performance of the 37th Engineer Battalion. Many others remained untold as the unit took the most casualties of any unit in the 5th Engineer Special Brigade.

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#37

Excellent AJ! Excellent. :pdt34::pdt34:

 

I have more news in the Engineer Section regarding the CIB. What I should do this morning is MOVE this entire post and combine it with my other one. Makes more sense. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. :wacko: Well you know how that goes, since you are a forum owner too.

 

Okay here goes...

 

Okay the two topics have been successfully merged. Hope this makes it easier to follow. :pdt34:

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
Reply
#38

Excellent AJ! Excellent. :pdt34::pdt34:

 

I have more news in the Engineer Section regarding the CIB. What I should do this morning is MOVE this entire post and combine it with my other one. Makes more sense. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. :wacko: Well you know how that goes, since you are a forum owner too.

 

Okay here goes...

 

Okay the two topics have been successfully merged. Hope this makes it easier to follow. :pdt34:

7: 20 CST, Got up early today, going to a VAVS meeting this AM,9:30. It's being held at the V.A. Medical Hospital,K.C.Mo.. Wonder what the TOPIC will be?

I STILL STAND FIRM. ALL THE COMBAT ENGINEERS SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE C.I.B. Marion your are in a class above everyone and the :pdt34: way you have fought for us you surely have EARNED ONE. Roque J. Riojas "34th Inf. Divn.""

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#39

Rocky,

Mr. Medina said there was so much confusion and stuff going on at Anzio, that he would have to think on it awhile.  I know that part of the 36th's job was setting up some sort of a tank for drinking water.  There was a picture of the tank somewhere on the web.

I'll tel him about the Anzio reunion. Branson sounds like a great place to have it and I'm sure that it will draw some good numbers.

 

Just to fill you in Rocky, I hooked up with my Dad's best buddy, in a round about way from this website. Joe Medina and my Dad hooked up with the 36 in North Africa and stayed together  through  Italy France and Germany. That was one more feather for Marion's cap :pdt34:

Chris

[/color]</span>

Chris: Sounds like Joe Medina is one of my people. Say hello to him from this AMIGO. Roque Riojas. Liked your post.

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#40

More info on the CIB. This was taken from this page: http://www.armyhistory.org/armyhistorical....amp;exCompID=32

 

Army History Research

 

Top : General History : Miscellaneous : Recognition of the Combat Infantryman: The Story of the CIB

Recognition of the Combat Infantryman: The Story of the CIB

By LTC Albert N. Garland, USA-Ret., Former Editor of Infantry magazine.

 

The Combat Infantryman Badge, or CIB, is the infantryman's most prestigious award, next to the medal of honor. With U.S. infantrymen once again serving in potentially "hot" zones of operation, it is worthwhile to examine the history of the award.

 

In August 1943, LTG Leslie J. McNair's Army Ground Forces (AGF) headquarters conducted a survey of soldiers then assigned to AGF's 11 arms and services. His people discovered that among those soldiers the infantry was by far the least popular branch, even with its own members. In brief, few infantrymen at the time were happy with being in the infantry or with their current assignments.

 

The results of the survey were given to General George C. Marshall, the Army's Chief of Staff and an old-line infantryman himself. In mid-1943, the U.S. still had a long road to travel and many battles to fight to reach final victory, and those battles would require motivated, well-trained combat soldiers, particularly infantrymen.

 

Marshall asked McNair to recommend ways the infantry's prestige could be boosted and its importance as the Army's premier combat arm could be recognized. By this time, Army units were doing 70 percent of the fightng and dying in all active theaters of operations, and Marshall knew knew the road ahead would require even greater sacrifices from the combat infantrymen. Something had to be done to improve their morale and effectiveness.

 

One of McNair's proposals called for a "fighter badge" that would be awarded to infantrymen who could meet certain standards, which were to be developed by Marshall's headquarters. Marshall approved the concept but eventually decided that instead of having one "fighter badge," there would be two individual combat badges -- the CIB and the Expert Infantryman Badge, or EIB.

 

Section I, War Department (WD) Circular 209, 27 October 1943, spelled out the details. The circular begins by stating: The present war has demonstrated the importance of highly proficient, tough, hard, and agressive infantry, which can be obtained only by developing a high degree of individual all-around proficiency on the part of every infantryman. As a means of attaining the high standards desired and to foster esprit de corps in infantry units, the Expert Infantryman and Combat Infantryman badges are established for infantry personnel.

 

It is interesting to note that both badges were initally considered combat badges. The EIB could be awarded to infantry, including officers, who either attained "the standards of proficiency established by the War Department" or satisfactorially performed "duty in action against the enemy." The CIB had stricter requirements ; to be awarded a CIB, infantrymen, including officers, had to demonstrate "exemplary conduct in action against the enemy" or satisfactorialy perform "duty in action against the enemy in a major operation as determined and announced by the theater commanders."

 

The award of the badges had to be made in unit orders and at an appropriate ceremony, whenever possible. The circular stressed that "only one of these badges will be worn at a time," and that "the Combat Infantryman badge is the higher award." Although the War Department circular was dated 27 October 1943, the EIB was not officially authorized until an executive order was issued on 11 November 1943; the CIB was officially authorized by executive order four days later.

 

Records indicate that no infantryman received an EIB for "duty in action against the enemy," and subsequent regulations specified the EIB would be restricted to infantrymen who satisfactorily completed stringent training requirements, while the CIB was restricted to infantrymen who satisfactorily performed their duties while in combat.

 

WD Circular 408, 17 October 1944, pulled together information contained in several previously issued WD 1944 circulars and spelled out further details for awarding both badges, including a provision that authorized "during the present war and for 6 months thereafter" additional compensation to those infantrymen who were awarded either the EIB or the CIB. This additional compensation amounted to $5.00 per month for EIB holders and $10.00 per month for CIB holders. A soldier could draw payment for one or the other but not for both at the same time. Officers were not authorized this additional compensation. These payments came about as a result of an act of Congress that was approved 30 June 1944 (a March 1944 change to the basic regulation made eligibility for the award of a CIB retroactive to 7 December 1941). Records reveal that such monetary awards to holders of either badge were not authorized after the stated term had expired.

 

Circular 408 also spelled out in greater detail the requirments individuals had to meet to be considered for the award of either badge. First, the award of the EIB and the CIB was to be "restricted to officers, warrant officers, and enlisted men assigned to infantry regiments, infantry battalions, and elements thereof designated as infantry in tables of organization or tables of organization and equipment."

 

The EIB could be awarded to infantrymen who "attained the standards of proficiency established by the War Department," while the CIB could be awarded for "satisfactory performance of duty in ground combat against the enemy." The latter was a distinct change to the original 1943 standards, an attempt to clarify them.

 

Despite the opinion of many combat infantrymen, Army regulations issued during World War II never prescribed a specific period of time a man had to serve in combat in an infantry unit to be eligible for the CIB. This has not prevented some from believing there was a specified time involved.

 

A separate award of the CIB has been authorized for qualified soldiers who took part in World War II (7 December 1941 - 3 September 1945), The Korean Conflict (27 June 1950 - 27 July 1953), and the Vietnam Conflict (1 March 1961 - 30 April 1975). However, qualifying service for such actions as Laos, the Dominican Republic, the Korean DMZ, Grenada, Panama, the Persian Gulf War and Somalia is recognized by one award whether a soldier served one or more tours of duty in any or all of those areas.

 

No combat infantryman has yet been awarded more than three CIBs. To earn these three awards, an infantryman would have had to see combat service in World War II, the Korean Conflict, and the Vietnam Conflict.

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
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