CIB's being awarded to com engs
#1

John sent the letter below to me regarding the latest news on the CIB. If you've read anything on my site, you will know that this is a hot topic for those who didn't receive their Combat Infantry Badges. Some vets like my dad DID receive his and some combat engineers who were attached and used as infantry units didn't. Some even within the same units did, while others were denied. We are trying to rectify this injustice.

 

To read more about it, please visit these forum links:

 

CIB

 

CIB Links

 

Read this page too. Scroll down towards the bottom. You will see a letter from a congressman and the army.

 

Memories of David Wagner

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't know if you heard that the Defense Department has approved a combat badge for those other than Infantry . As of today it is authorized only for those in Iraq but my Congressman is trying to get it made retroactive. It will apply to Armor, Cavalry, Engineers, and Artillery who had the same exposure to combat as Infantry. Of course, as we know, some had more exposure. If you have contacs with a Congressman I think it might be a good idea to contact him for your father.

 

 

36 Engineers are rugged......John Fallon II. Capt. USA Ret.

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
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#2

At present time the army is looking to see if the 157 combat engineer battalion member Harold Whiting is qual. for the badge i sent them a copy of being attached to the 100th infrinty div in the taking of Bitchie France and many other times we were with the infrinty .will check with my congressman. thanks Hwhiting 157©eng bn.

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#3

Good luck Harold. I want to make sure that every combat engineer who fought as INFANTRY UNDER FIRE, will get this CIB. My father and John Fallon got theirs, and you should too my dear. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

 

I think this word would be very appropriate right now,

 

ESSAYONS!! :pdt34:

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
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#4

Dave from the 39th Combat Engineers sent me this today. This is what he found in print.

 

I am very disappointed in the army's decision. It's not only unfair to the guys like combat engineers who were actually used for periods as infantry and were UNDER FIRE, but why some of the guys like my dad and several other got theirs (Amen to that), but why some other who fought under the same exact conditions did not. Inconsistencies are really hard to live with. :pdt33:

-------------------

 

Non-Infantry Soldiers Get Combat Badge

Associated Press ^ | February 19, 2005 | Associated Press

Posted on 02/21/2005 12:40:53 AM PST by Former Military Chick

 

WASHINGTON - The Army is creating a combat badge for soldiers who come under fire in close combat in Iraq and Afghanistan but who are not otherwise eligible for special recognition because they are from armor, artillery or other non-infantry units.

 

Soldiers from foreign armies, such as the Iraqi army, who are assigned to U.S. Army units in close combat, also will be eligible for the special recognition, officials said Friday.

 

The new badge, called the Close Combat Badge, will settle an emotional debate that has raged within the Army and was settled only last week by the service's most senior generals.

 

The disparity at issue is that infantrymen and non-infantry soldiers who face the same risks in the same gun battle at close range are treated differently by the Army in terms of badges.

 

Until now, only infantrymen who participated in direct combat missions and came under fire were given the Combat Infantryman Badge, a coveted distinction that counts in their favor when eligible for promotions. There is no equivalent recognition for artillerymen or others who came under fire.

 

Since the wars began in Afghanistan and Iraq, the inequity became increasingly controversial within the Army - particularly in the case of Iraq, where some cavalry scouts and other non-infantry soldiers have been reorganized into infantry-like units to perform infantry-like close combat missions.

 

Several of the most senior Army commanders in Iraq had written to Lt. Gen. Franklin Hagenbeck, the deputy chief of staff for personnel, asking that he grant exceptions to the limited eligibility rules for the Combat Infantryman Badge, in order to recognize the other soldiers.

 

Instead, Hagenbeck said in an interview Friday, the Army decided to preserve the rules for the Combat Infantryman Badge but also create the Close Combat Badge so that infantrymen would still have their own and others who performed infantry-like missions under fire would get special recognition, too.

 

"It's for the artilleryman who has been made a de facto infantryman," Hagenbeck said. The same applies to other ground combat soldiers like those in armor, combat engineering and cavalry, who have been called upon to do infantry missions and are personally present under fire.

 

It will be given, retroactive to Sept. 11, 2001, to eligible soldiers below the rank of colonel.

 

The badges are not awards for valor, like the Bronze Star. The precise eligibility rules are to be published by the Army in March, and senior officers then can issue the badges, Hagenbeck said.

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
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#5

Marion I had no idea until the other day that the veterans who arent infantry were not "qualified " for this badge. It is indeed a badge of courage, and it just amazes me that they would not be given to the others who fought along side of the infantry. I wonder if my Dad knows this? He was infantry and has his He actually has more than one.. This also means Taylor wouldnt qualify either since he is Quartermaster? I see the news about the new one so maybe he will fit that category. I just think its a shame that the Veterans that arent infantry dont qualify.. but the Army is like that at times. Here is an odd one My Dad has a Naval Presidential Citation from time in Korea. He still has some confusion over that one but he qualified for it for . He has 4 of those little bars... I sure am proud of him if you didnt already know. But thats for another place Cindy

 

"The badges are not awards for valor, like the Bronze Star."

 

In my little opinion they are all awards for valor....

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#6

Nicely said. You are correct that not many people at all know about this. In fact when I wrote to several of "my" engineers, they were not aware of it either. So my hope is to get everyone on the same page. We may not "win", but at least we will all be educated to the facts past and present.

 

I will keep posting any info I get from the vets involved and any articles I read pertaining to this matter.

 

Ah the army regulations... :direct:

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
Reply
#7

The CIB was originated in 1943 and was awarded only for Ifantryman that were actually

in combat with the enemy. Even its name disignates Infantry. During ww 2 two thirds

of all KIA were Infantrymen, yet they were only about 15 percent of the total soldiers..

Also, their living conditions (existing conditions) were the poorest. The CMB also was

awarded for ACTUAL COMBAT MEDICS who were part of a Infantry company. Granted, some other support units did, at times fight as infantry, but not as a usual

thing and not for extended periods. The "jobs" of these units were not of the Infantry

type most of the time. This brings to mind, why didnt the paratroopers recieve the

Air Force Air Medal ? Many of the pilots recieved it that dropped the paratroopers. And

yes, we also recieved a extra $10.00 per month when awarded it.

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#8

Here is the latest news. This was sent to me by Al Kincer.

 

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=7394

 

And more from Al...

 

I got this from Thorpe Mealing, President of The Eng.OCS Association. Only for post 9-11 action. Maybe some day others deserving more that a little will be rewarded. AL Kincer

 

The new Combat Action Badge will be available in clothing sales stores later this summer.

 

 

Army announces new Combat Action Badge design

May 27, 2005

 

 

WASHINGTON (Army News Service, May 27, 2005) -- The Army announced today the design for the Combat Action Badge.

 

The design was approved by Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, Army chief of staff.

 

The CAB, featuring both a bayonet and grenade, may be awarded to any Soldier performing assigned duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized, who is personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement, according to its authorizing language. Award is not limited by one’s branch or military occupational specialty.

 

“Warfare is still a human endeavor,†Schoomaker said. “Our intent is to recognize Soldiers who demonstrate and live the Warrior Ethos.â€

 

"The Global War on Terrorism and its associated operations will be the first era of conflict considered for this award," said Lt. Col. Bill Johnson, Human Resources Command chief of military awards. "September 18, 2001, is the effective date for the new award. That is when President Bush signed Senate Joint Resolution 23, authorizing the use of military force against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States."

 

The CAB will go into immediate production and should be available late this summer or early fall through unit supply and military clothing sales stores.

 

For more information, visit U.S. Army Badges, The Institute of Heraldry (TIOH) Homepage, http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/badges/U...sArmyBadges.htm.

Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
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#9

Related , yet somewhat off topic. regarding soldiers getting the CIB or not;

 

On my site I have Capt. Robert Woodhall. He was an Artillery Forward Controller who was often in the thick of the fighting between the American and German lines. I wrote with a buddy of his who said he regretted he was never awarded the CIB, while he had been in more fighting than many a infantry soldier....And while rear echelon units of infantry units did get the CIB while they never fired a shot in anger.

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#10

The Combat Infantry Badge

 

I am a WWII combat infantryman who served in the Third Infantry Division through 6 campaigns in Europe in WWII in Italy, France and Germany. The decoration of which I am most proud is the CIB. It's an honorable award and I still wear a miniature in the lapel of my jacket at age 84.

 

It was intended to reward those Infantryman who risked their lives for their country daily, without reservation, and endured the hardships of an Infantryman's life. And for having faced the high probablility of instant death day after day after day with no end of the War in sight. Thirty four thousand of those men who served in the Third Infantry Division were killed in action by War's end. Thus it's a highly respected decoration. But now others who did not undergo those dangers and hardships that we did 60 years ago, demand the same award.

 

Today's Army appears to me to be somewhat receptive to cheapening awards as a means of encouraging enlistments. I think it would be a grave injustice to those of us who gave so much and ask for nothing.

 

3_7_I_Recon

Russ Cloer

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