Hi Jean, I didn't see this mentioned but I have to ask, was your father routed through Gerolstein? I believe that is the blown out factory my father was held, the place he said that was so filthy and we there were 1200 men held there, I believe it was near a rail station, that was how they were moving the men out by box car.
How funny - we are all Members of Christoph's Fan Club!
Mary, yes I am very very curious about your Dad's capture and Sgt. Thicke's story!!!! And did Sgt Thicke and your Dad travel by train? Anything you know will help - a little word can fill in pieces to this Huge puzzle.
Your mention of Gerolstein was quite amazing and an example! If you could remind me of your Dad's outfit and where he was captured and when, then I can compare those locations to the proximity to Gerolstein.
I have run across Gerolstein because 2 other men seem to have come from there or through there. But they did not come by train - they were marched and one died.
My Dad was captured early on - Oct. 7th - further north - a strange stroke of fortune to be sent to Siegburg and to survive as did your Dad and so many other men that passed through the Hospital/Camp!
Jean J
Hi Jean,
My Dad, Walter Brinegar, A Company, 27th AIB, 9th Armored, was captured on December 23, 1944 just outside of St Vith. He and Sgt Thicke were in the same foxhole when they were captured. He and Sgt Thicke were together for a while (after being walked for over a week, until after New Years according to the recording I have). They were together for awhile but Sgt Thicke was taken to a different POW camp as, we believe, he was not injured. I BELIEVE (not positive) they were seperated at Gerolstein. Gerolstein being the horrible place my father talks about in his recording. My father says in the recording they walked for 5 weeks. I estimate they got to 'The Factory"/Gerolstein maybe about February 5th. Then, they put them on the train, 40 and 8, to Seigburg. He said there was about 3 feet of frozen horse manure they sat on for the week on the train. I want to determine for certain if Gerolstein is where "The factory" he speaks of really is located. Was your father on a train as well?
I did contact the 309th on FB and got a reply. I asked if they know of anybody that was part of the liberation is still around. I'd love to talk to them if they are.
Talk to you soon!
Below is the information I have found on Sgt Thicke - (note it says he was capture 12/22/1944 but my father states they were captured 12/23/1944 in the a.m.) Notice his discharge indicates he was at 12A and then 9B.
I
Enlistment:: 36106925
THICK DAVID R JR
< font size="3" face="Times New Roman">
DETROIT MICHIGAN Born: 1919
36106925
THICK DAVID R JR
Staff Sergeant
Date of Capture: 22 DEC 44
0A
0A
Unit: 0027
Camp: Stalag 12A to 9B Limburg An Der Lahn Hessen-Nassau, Prussia
Oh, Jean, one other thing! I remember seeing a comment about you finding information about one of the prisoners having a .45 on him. My Dad talks about that guy in the recording as well! It is so exciting to have the wonderful people on this forum, all of you, helping to putting this incredible bit of history (history we are losing at such an alarming rate!) together.
Also, if I understand correctly and hope, Jean, you can confirm was it your Dad that was with Dad when they took my father's toe off? And, Dad says he calls him "Red" (which was Dad's nickname) so he must have known him pretty well.
Also, I can't remember if I mentioned I tried to contact the Stong (Wesley, who's name and address I found in a address book) but had no success. I'm guessing he is no longer with us. Wesley Strong, I believe, was at Waldbrol with Dad. He was shot across the back and had given my father a letter to mail in case in did not survive.
I can't remember if I included these links in the forum string before so I'm including it, just in case. Lots of details in them, even more each time I listen to them. I'd love to know about the boy that was shot down in a bomber, Dad says he was "an Italian from Beaver Falls". The moxy Dad talks about him having when being questioned demonstrates, to me, the essense of the men that fought in that war.
This section is just like the energizer bunny - it keeps going and going and going and... Fantastic! Every time I see another post, I am just blown away!
Mary, this is an Oh Wow!
I heard your Dad's recording before, but it was a bad recording and replayed it several times but this one is great.
What you posted was fabulous!!! I have not seen the photos or looked at the different things you have there - but did get to briefly hear the Great interview that was done! God Bless Walter and you all for doing this!
I can quickly tell you there was a Cellar at the Abbey. One man I found was placed there but your Dad had left the cellar before then. I have to go back to my notes but of the 4 men that were in the Cellar 2 were French and one was a Lt. with shrapnel in his back. Your Dad as he improved, must have gone from the Cellar to the Barracks. This man spent his whole time in the cellar - a few weeks.
The April 8th date I think makes it almost 100% certain he was liberated from Waldbrol and from there got sent to a Hospital in Paris. Your Dad knew the War was not over and it was not a typical liberation of a Camp - nor did your Dad describe it like the POW's from other Camps have described their liberations.
Just in last couple of weeks have heard from 4 Ex POW's or their families, and yesterday was another one of those 4 that I was referred to, and none were at Siegburg. Love the stories and have such great respect for all of them and lets me compare things and life to Siegburg - from what I recall and have learned.
While my Dad would have said just what your Dad said "Red, ..........." I am not as convinced it was Dad. Dad even told me he said that exact expression - but I do not recall any nicknames. I would have suspected your Dad would have said something like "Moose or the Big Guy or ...." but maybe not. And Dad would not have been there for a check up - but Walter would not have known that but ....The fellow who was in the Cellar when I brought up the Red Cross immediately referred to Moose coming into the Cellar this one time ... I had never mentioned my Dad or his name or nickname or description or anything .... and "Moose" rolled out of him as if he was talking about his Buddy he had been with the day before. He said he did not really know Moose but he knew all about him and how everyone respected him and he ran things and was a big wheel etc. ........
As for the pistol, we know no one came to Siegburg with anything. The Germans even took my Dad's negligee when he was captured. Dad tried to get it back and he got hit pretty badly for that. Someone at the Camp had to have given the pistol to Dad - likely the Commandant. It was to everyone's advantage if Dad could get to the Allieds and tell them to not bomb Siegburg. I will replay your recordings many times to see what I can figure out but I do not recall hearing about a gun.
After capture, Dad was walked to Holding Camps - quite a few stories on that - and then he was walked to Siegburg where he was given the first bed in the room and later was told that the gentleman before him had not worked out.
There were many pilots/Airmen that came through Siegburg. The one I have referred to died early on. It is a very involved and complex story and I first learned of it from the Archives in Washington.
So happy you are back on line Mary!
Jean J
P. S. Mary,
Christoph must be SOOOO happy to see you back on line! I wish I knew how to make those smiley faces to him!
Jean J
I have just had the most incredible thing happen! It was so sweet!
The family of the gentleman who died at Siegburg and who received the letter from my Dad has just called me. The gentleman called because it was Memorial Day and he wanted to Thank me for having brought back life and the memories and stories of his Uncle. He said his Aunt and everyone in the family talk about it all the time.and are so grateful for my research. I sent them some documents as a result of my research in St. Louis and some member of the family is even going to go visit the site in Arkansas and see if the building is still there where the little story took place..
They visited the grave site yesterday and he read to me what was on the stone. Now I know he was a Sgt. and with the 35th Division and 138th Regiment. The stone also had TH on it but I wonder if it should have been PH for Purple Heart.
Jean J
I`ve spent a good part of the weekend going thru this thread figuring out who`s who, & where they were & dates etc. Seems there are a lot of unanswered questions. One question was where was the hospital located. From what i`m finding, there were several hospitals. At one point the were 2 infirmmaries & 4 different hospitals that served VI G.
Keep in mind things i`m finding may not have been available online a year ago.
NARA`s online POW listings show 2 different hospitals for Stalag VI G:
NARA Code 011 Stalag 6G Bonn Rheinland, Prussia 50-07 468 partial records
NARA Code 332 Hospital at Muenstierel Laz (Serves Stalag 6-G) Bonn Rheinland, Prussia 50-07 4 partial records
NARA Code 349 Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07 13 partial records
NARA Code 332 Hospital at Muenstierel Laz (Serves Stalag 6-G) Bonn Rheinland, Prussia 50-07 4 partial records
37007262 BARLOW ED L
ARMY
European Theatre: Germany
Died as Prisoner of War, Not Above Cases
GERMANY
Hospital at Muenstierel Laz (Serves Stalag 6-G) Bonn Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
31159863 KEENAN PATRICK J
ARMY
Massachusetts
European Theatre: Germany
Died as Prisoner of War, Not Above Cases
GERMANY
Hospital at Muenstierel Laz (Serves Stalag 6-G) Bonn Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
O&713345 BRIGGS JOHN
ARMY
New Jersey
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Hospital at Muenstierel Laz (Serves Stalag 6-G) Bonn Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
37518374 MC GINNIS GREGORY L
ARMY
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Hospital at Muenstierel Laz (Serves Stalag 6-G) Bonn Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NARA Code 349 Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07 Lists 13 POWs
SERIAL NUMBER NAME SERVICE CODE STATE OF RESIDENCE AREA STATUS DETAINING POWER CAMP
37277399 BUTLER LELAND I
ARMY North Dakota
European Theatre: France
Died as Prisoner of War, Not Above Cases
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
O1057970 CAMPBELL GEORGE E
ARMY Oklahoma
European Theatre: Germany
Died as Prisoner of War, Not Above Cases
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
36653803 CULIK JOHN J JR
ARMY Illinois
European Theatre: Germany
Died as Prisoner of War, Not Above Cases
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
39472161 WADE GUY W
ARMY Wisconsin
European Theatre: Germany
Died as Prisoner of War, Not Above Cases
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
36676096 WESTGATE ROY L JR
ARMY
Illinois
European Theatre: Germany
Died as Prisoner of War, Not Above Cases
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
34857675 BOYETTE HAROLD E
ARMY North Carolina
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
15374465 COLEMAN TED G
ARMY
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
35475190 EIGELBACH NORMAN P
ARMY
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
33326353 FULTON GEORGE M
ARMY Pennsylvania
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
35586565 GAULESKY WILLIAM
ARMY Wisconsin
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
37481465 HIX LESTER E
ARMY South Dakota
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
35112061 LESMER RAYMOND H
ARMY Ohio
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07
35895909 MC KOWN WILLIAM J
ARMY
European Theatre: Germany
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
GERMANY
Military Hospital Siegburg Rheinland, Prussia 50-07