23 replies to this topic

[civilwargal]

I finally found my fathers bag of WWII things.  First, I think this is the patch from his unit- the 1251st Battalion Combat Engineers

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[civilwargal]

I'd love some help on this one....The one on the righr, there are two of them
He also has an expert rifle pin and two, count em two, good conduct medals.  When I tell people who knew my father that, the laugh.  The opinion is that he stole those....

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[civilwargal]

He also had a couple of trophys.  Some kind of a hat band, a belt buckle and this pin...hope you can read it.

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[Walt's Daughter]

HOW EXCITING! Good for you!

The ribbons are as follows:

European Theatre

American Theatre

Good Conduct

[Walt's Daughter]

I do not know what that pin is. I defer to someone else....

[civilwargal]

He had a second ribbon that matched the one you identified as good conduct, so apparently he really did receive two good conducts.... very suprising.
What do the three little stars mean?  Are they campaign markers?

[206thmpco]

the 3 bronze stars are "ribbon devices" for participation in major campaigns.
three stars on an ETO ribbon means that he served in 3 campaigns in the European Theater of Operations. If a vet was in more than 5 campaigns - the bronze stars would've been replaced by one silver star.

[Walt's Daughter]

Yes, and if there was an arrowhead, it would indicate a beachhead landing.  

[Jeeper704]

That pin is a party pin of the NSDAP aka nazi party (I refuse to write it with a capital).
Sort of party day (remembrance) pin of 1934.

Erwin

[SonofaMP]

The first shoulder patch is an Engineer Amphibious Forces Special Brigades Shoulder Patch. This was the patch worn by the engineers that cleared beaches during Amphibious Operations and Assaults.

[civilwargal]

Would the amphibious forces patch be given for rivers too?  They werent involved in any beach landings.  
(the other option is that on the days he wasn't working on his two good conduct medals, he lifted it off another soldier...)

[roque_riojas]

the 3 bronze stars are "ribbon devices" for participation in major campaigns.
three stars on an ETO ribbon means that he served in 3 campaigns in the European Theater of Operations. If a vet was in more than 5 campaigns - the bronze stars would've been replaced by one silver star.

Sorry,,but the star on the campaign ribbon is not a device.
it means participation. I have 4. You don't get one for
river crossings or I would have 4. Rapido 1, Volturno 3   rocky

[SonofaMP]

"Would the amphibious forces patch be given for rivers too?"

No, but there are several posibilities, first i dont think was uncommon for guys to swap or "collect" shoulder patches from other nearby units. Second, if they were in England they may have trained with or were attached or assigned to an Amphibious Force Command. but were penciled in as an engineer followup unit instead of landing on D-Day.
I see the 1251st also has a campaign credit for Southern Phillipines, did your dad go to the pacific after the war in europe ended? They may have been under an amphip command there.
From what i gather, the patch was not from any certain engineer special brigade but used by Amphipious Force Command for engineer units.

[civilwargal]

He never saw the Phillipines.  They did train to go to the Pacific after Europe, but fortunatly the war ended.  
Possibly they received special training but did not use it?

[Walt's Daughter]

Rocky is correct; the stars were only awarded for campaigns - NOT for river crossings. Arrowheads were awarded for D-Day landings.

[roque_riojas]

Rocky is correct; the stars were only awarded for campaigns - NOT for river crossings. Arrowheads were awarded for D-Day landings.

Thank you M-1 dear. A campaign is not for one battle, but several.
after my   C.I.B.  those stars come next as most valuable.       Rocky

[civilwargal]

Today I found the "official" discharge paperwork.  On it was listed his unit information. Spent a year looking for that info....
Some strange things on the discharge:
His decorations are listed as good conduct (ok....I give in,,,he was well behaved at times), American Theater ribbon, European African middle Eastern Theater campaign ribbon (thats a lot of territory for one small ribbon)Victory medal.  (I dont recollect seeing that one)
For service school they list Communication School....I know he went to bridge school, but communication school...he was a yeller.  
These are the strangest ones
ERC 19 May 25 may of 43
20 days lost under AW 107
and ASR score 48

AW107?

[roque_riojas]

Today I found the "official" discharge paperwork.  On it was listed his unit information. Spent a year looking for that info....
Some strange things on the discharge:
His decorations are listed as good conduct (ok....I give in,,,he was well behaved at times), American Theater ribbon, European African middle Eastern Theater campaign ribbon (thats a lot of territory for one small ribbon)Victory medal.  (I dont recollect seeing that one)
For service school they list Communication School....I know he went to bridge school, but communication school...he was a yeller.  
These are the strangest ones
ERC 19 May 25 may of 43
20 days lost under AW 107
and ASR score 48

AW107?

If he was in a combat area, his E.A.M.E. campaign ribbon should
have  stars on it.  never heard of the ERC or AW items ASR are
points aquiered while overseas. Mine came to 92, enough to
come home ahead of the Divn.      Rocky

[Walt's Daughter]

Okay, here's some of the DD214 army lingo!!  

"ART. 107. SOLDIERS TO MAKE GOOD TIME LOST. Every soldier who deserts the service of the United States, or who without proper authority absents himself from his organization, station, or duty for more than one day, or who is confined for more than one day under sentence, or while awaiting trial and disposition of his case, if the trial results in conviction, or who through the intemperate use of drugs or alcoholic liquor, or through disease the result of his own misconduct, renders himself unable for more than one day to perform duty shall be liable to serve, after his return to a full duty status, for such period as shall, with the time he may have served prior to such desertion, unauthorized absence, confinement, or inability to perform duty, amount to the full term to his enlistment."

Several people have been curious about this ARTICLE OF WAR, for it appears on many a serviceman's records.


Notice #24 on this TVA3595

http://www.tva.gov/employment/pdf/TVA3595.pdf

[Walt's Daughter]

This has been a big question on a lot of military forums. One guy wrote:

An Articles of War charge (the AW 107) is not uncommon on enlisted discharge forms but very rare on officer ones. These were handed out to enlisted in many units almost like weekend passes as a means of maintaining discipline.

Trying to list some typical terminology found on DD214's.  Once we get all this down, I am going to post all the info and "pin it", so it will be readily available for all to see.


AUS-Army of the United States

ERC-Enlisted Reserve Corp

Reason for Authority for Separation-Rel to ERC SR means Relieved from active duty to Enlisted Reserve Corp. SR means Special Regulation

More to come. Gotta get back to bed and get some sleep...  

[roque_riojas]

This has been a big question on a lot of military forums. One guy wrote:



Trying to list some typical terminology found on DD214's.  Once we get all this down, I am going to post all the info and "pin it", so it will be readily available for all to see.


AUS-Army of the United States

ERC-Enlisted Reserve Corp

Reason for Authority for Separation-Rel to ERC SR means Relieved from active duty to Enlisted Reserve Corp. SR means Special Regulation

More to come. Gotta get back to bed and get some sleep...  

My DD-214 don't got the two you mention.   rocky

[Walt's Daughter]

Here's a site dedicated to the DD214

http://dd214.us

For a list of the "spin codes" click on this direct link:

http://dd214.us/reference/SPN_Codes.pdf

I am going to place this info in our research section right now...

[SonofaMP]

Ok, here`s the official scoop on the shoulder patch from the Army Institute of Heraldry  
The Institute of Heraldry Home Page

1st Engineer Brigade Insignia Page

Shoulder Sleeve Insignia

Description:  On a blue rectangular background with a rounded top, 3 1/8 inches (7.94 cm) in width and 3 1/4 inches (8.26 cm) in height, a modern anchor palewise behind a sub-machine gun fesswise on which is perched an eagle with wings displayed and inverted all in golden yellow.



Symbolism:  The design was based on the design of the British Combined Operations patch which was worn by commandos, landing craft personnel, and others.



Background:  The shoulder sleeve insignia was originally approved for the Engineer Amphibian Units on 17 June 1942.  It was redesignated for all Army personnel assigned to the following amphibian units:  Amphibian Tank Battalions; Amphibian Tractor Battalions; Engineer Amphibian Units; Joint Assault Signal Companies; Headquarters Ships Detachments (Type A); Headquarters Ships Detachment (Type B ); Headquarters Section (Army); and Amphibian Training Command - Pacific Fleet on 10 June 1944.  The insignia was redesignated for the 1st Engineer Brigade and amended to update the description and add a symbolism on 20 July 2007.  (TIOH Dwg. No. A-1-263)

[Walt's Daughter]

The shoulder sleeve insignia was originally approved for the Engineer Amphibian Units

That is absolutely correct. It's just a generalized engineer amphibian patch. It is NOT a unit patch.

Many people write to me and say "this was my dad's bn (or regimental) patch."  I write and give them the above info. Sorry you still have to dig for their UNIT patch, I explain...